Episode 10: ASK THE EXPERT - Emma Grønbæk. Lessons from a Donor-Conceived Person and How to Foster A Positive Experience
About This Episode:
Today, Emma Grønbæk shares with us her journey through life as a donor conceived person. She provides advice on how recipient parents can help their donor conceived children have a positive upbringing. She shares stories of how her parents have helped cultivate a positive environment the supported both growth and curiosity. She also talks about her book that chronicles the story of her and her family! Emma is a truly lovely human with a beautiful outlook on life and how she came to be! If you're considering donor conception or you're a recipient parent, this episode is for you!
Connecting with the guest:
Connect with Emma: https://www.instagram.com/donorchild/
Emma's Website: https://donorchildemmagroenbaek.com/
Get Emma's book here: https://amzn.to/3ur0ip7
Also Mentioned in this episode:
Motherhood Reimagined Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/motherhoodreimagined/
Motherhood Reimagined wesite: https://motherhoodreimagined.com/
The Transcript:
0:30
Welcome to episode 10.
You guys.
I can't believe I made it here at the 10 episodes for me.
It's a huge milestone so thank you to everyone who's been listening.
I'm so grateful to each and every one of you.
0:46
So today I'm so excited to have Emigrant Beck I'm so sorry, am I probably totally butchered that I'm so so sorry but she is a Donor conceived individual and she shares her experience growing up knowing that she's a donor conceived person and she shares that experience with us today.
1:05
I think it's really important to talk about this topic because for those of us who are 40, we have a higher likelihood of needing donor eggs.
So knowing that, you know, that this is something that we have to consider.
I started to do some browsing around the topic and we're hitting a time where a lot of donor conceived babies have now.
1:26
Adults, they're grown up, and they're old enough to share their experience with us
And when I was looking into this, and I was looking online, I actually found a lot of negative experiences and I found that people were angry and that got me to really reconsider whether or not donor conception was an option for me.
1:46
And then I found as account and she somehow popped up in my feed and I perused her account and what I found was so much positivity.
Her fee, just does a wonderful job showcasing this beautiful relationship, she has with her family and she's done a few Instagram lives with her father and the relationship.
2:06
I saw was just so beautiful and it was just like picture-perfect and they're living that dream that I think we all hope to have Have when we have our own children, whether or not their donor conceived, it just is that ideal parent-child relationship and I just thought that was really great and so after seeing their Dynamic, I wanted to know like what was the difference, why why was her experience so positive and what made it?
2:38
So positive.
So I invited her onto the show to talk about her experience and I think what you'll notice from her Is that this was something that played a very important role in her life but at the very same time, didn't she is so open about her experience and for that.
2:58
I am so, so grateful, if you want to hear a recipient parent story, take a listen to Sarah, Kowalski's story of motherhood reimagined and episode 7
She shares how she parents her donor conceived, child and kind of her perspective, For Emma, we have the perspective of what it is to be donor conceived, but if you want to kind of hear a little bit of behind the parenting, Sarah, Kowalski's episode is really great for that before we get to Emma, as, always, please, please, please, review, share, and follow this podcast.
3:34
If you find Value at anything that we're talking about on this podcast, my mission is to get this information and these stories in as many ears as we can
So that the future parents aren't struggling as we are today
Thank you so much Emma for sharing your story.
3:51
I'm so grateful that you made time to be with us and to share your experience to help all of us and the donor conceive Community have the best outcome possible.
Hey, everyone, we are back and we have Emma today.
4:14
Emma is a wonderful human that I actually saw on Instagram and she is a donor conceived person.
And she has a really, really wonderful story to share with us.
So, thank you so much for being here with us, Emma, and kind of teaching us all how we can kind of learn from your experience and the experience of others.
4:34
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah.
So I kind of wanted to start.
So one of the first things that really caught my eye was on Instagram, I saw one of the reels that you made, you had this lovely book that your parents made for you, would you mind telling us about their story and how, you know, they brought you into this world.
4:57
So one of the things my parents did really, really good was that they made sort of like a children's book.
That we read as a nighttime story from I was just a kid.
So I gradually understood about my conception in and our family story.
5:19
And yeah the book was really simple actually, it was just pictures of friends and family drawings that my mom did and the very, very basic story about two people who loved each other and wanted a child, but didn't really seem to I have so easy becoming pregnant and yeah then needing help from someone else to to get sperm to put on the egg.
5:52
And yeah, having me and just a very, very positive story about my conception why our family is how it is.
And yeah, the love wood.
Between my parents, I guess.
6:09
Yeah.
No, that's wonderful.
I love the idea of having the book to tell your personal story, you know, I mean, I'm, I actually don't know if there are any other, like, children's types, books out there, explaining this process, but I loved that they made and catered a book to you in your personal story.
6:30
Do you think that made a difference seeing like a per your own personal story?
I think it made a huge difference.
I think that it was one of the main also being told earlier, of course, but it was a really good way.
For both my parents to explain in a way where I, as a child I didn't understand everything, but when you read the book, you understand more and more eventually, and then we could have conversations about things.
6:59
I might not understand or drawings that my mom made.
So I think it was a really, really nice.
Nice way to start conversations.
And I think that it was personal also made us talk a bit more because it had like pictures of well, my parents friends and family who had children during that time where they were struggling.
7:26
So also my cousins and, and, and people who have been a big part of my life, also growing up there, in also, in the book.
So, so, yeah, I think Just really, really nice way to to speak about this topic that can be sometimes difficult and also think it was a great resource for my parents, to start the conversation because that can be hard.
7:51
It's something that you struggled so much with and where do you start?
What do you tell?
So I think it was a good way for them to start communicating as well.
Hmm.
When do you remember the first time being told, Old about where how you came to be?
8:10
Yeah, I have no memory because I think I was around three years old when we started reading the book.
So it's just been to me.
It feels like I've known always because I don't remember a time when I did not know, I don't remember the time where we sat down reading.
8:28
I do have a lot of memories of us reading throughout the years but but not like a specific time that this was the first time.
I was told this was the first time we read about it because I might not have understood the first time but I did eventually.
8:47
Yeah.
No, I think that's beautiful.
I think that it's wonderful.
And so, as a child, did you feel like you had any feelings about being donor conceived?
Did you feel like you like there was something different or did you feel like, you know what, I'm just like any other kid.
9:04
I've got a mom and a dad and you know, I'm just I'm just any other kid?
No I definitely felt like I was different and I knew that I was different and this was not like an ordinary story but yeah.
I've always felt in some way that it was a positive thing.
9:23
I've always felt like my mom explains it as I was proud of it.
So I was very, very open about it.
And yeah, I just, I think I felt like it made.
Me special.
Because my parents have wanted me so bad that they spent six years and loads of money and time, and had so many feelings involved in this process.
9:50
So I think it actually made me feel feel a bit more comfortable in myself.
And so I told very openly about a family story even though most other people did not really.
10:07
And or yeah.
Mmm.
Do you, did you remember telling your friends about it?
Like, do you remember telling your classmates or anything about it?
Crying up?
Yeah.
So I had an episode in Ms. Have been first grade or something like that, where I, we had to do like family trees in school, and my mom is a clinical geneticist.
10:30
So I've seen at home, how she makes like professional family trees and So I knew a bit more than regular children about this part of doing that, your family tree.
And so I was confused about the assignment, and I told my teacher about my story and she did not believe it.
10:54
Mmm, so she thought that I was making stuff up to be, like, more special in get attention at school.
So she called my parents and they had to explain to her and then afterwards, And I brought my book to school and explain my classmates about the situation and yeah, they do don't really mind.
11:17
I have a mom and a dad.
I didn't look any different from any of them.
So yeah, I think they just didn't really mind.
Hmm, no, that's great.
And then how about as an adult do you have, did you find that as an adult you had any issues or any struggles with donor conception?
11:37
I've had times I would say it's more more like in the teenage years where it's played, I would say the donor conception has played a bigger or smaller parts of my life throughout different times.
So sometimes where there was something that in some way, with concerning this topic, like I had a time where I was thinking, a lot about, who do I look like, where does this come from?
12:06
Where does that come from?
Um, and we talked a lot about that and I thought about how the donor might look and then I hired through the teenage years, I have two younger sisters, who are twins, and they are because of the XE method becoming available in Denmark, at that time, they are my dad's biological children.
12:28
So even though they only two years younger than me, that had become a possibility.
So I had Add times growing up.
Where I think I felt when we were on a vacation or something like that but when we were together like very intensely, I could feel a bit left out and that could trigger some negative feelings.
12:52
That could spiral me out into, am I not as big a part of this family as everyone else?
Hmm.
Which I think could have happened.
Even if I was not turning in saved, I'm sure I would have had some, if your Yeah put on the spot like that.
13:13
Yeah it just trigger things and also in teenage years I think hormones and a lot of stuff's going on, I think that.
So I had these feelings but I think that it was important to me that I always knew that it wasn't the case.
13:37
Like I was as big a part of the family. we, as everyone else, I knew like with my common sense that these feelings were not rational, but we talked about them and I've worked with them whenever they were there and yeah, and also later in life, when I was around 20 years, I found out that I was actually is intolerant and that is genetic variation and as my mom doesn't have it, it must I've come from the donor.
14:11
So of course at that time, I also had like thought about it.
Not something that I was upset about or anything.
Just yeah, a reminder that there is some knowledge that I don't have.
Yeah, no, I think that's, I think that's been, at least.
14:33
It seems like, from what I've seen on your Instagram feed, you seem to have a really good relationship.
Up with your dad.
He I think you know the way you guys interact together on some of your reels is and I think you do a couple of lives with him too and like your what I see between you is just so beautiful.
14:55
And you know, I think that's wonderful to see and you know sometimes I wonder like why or how you've had such a positive experience with the salt?
Because you know, I think there are variations in though donor can see Person community in their experience with, with how they came to this world.
15:17
So I know that some people struggle with being donor conceived in, I don't know if it's true.
I can't speak for anyone but it sounds like the earlier the sooner.
You know about it probably.
The more positive experience you have.
15:35
Like what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I definitely think that being told that early.
And it not becoming a shock.
It has never been a secret.
It's never been something that I could feel like I should be ashamed of if you can follow that thought.
15:50
So I think if you keep something a secret for a lot of years, you would feel like why is this been a secret?
Is that because there's something wrong with it.
So I think that them just being very open and open-minded talking about it to people.
16:10
And telling me that only has made a huge huge difference in my, I feel like I do.
Yeah.
But so for me I because I'm older, I'm in my 40s, I'm in my early 40s and having, you know, infertility issues.
16:28
I may or may not need a donor egg at some point.
And one of the things I think about and one of the things I fear in using a donor egg, is that The child that I have may not feel bonded to me may not feel like I am the real parent or, you know, I will feel like, you know, like I want to give them everything the Sun, the moon, the stars, everything and then they're just like, but you're not my real mom, you know what I mean?
16:58
So I that's one of the fears I have do, you know, has your dad ever express to you whether or not he's had that feeling where he fears that you may not feel bonded to him because obviously you guys are very bonded.
Very close and the relationship.
You have is so wonderful.
17:14
I'm curious if he's ever expressed to you that he's had those fears or if you guys ever have talked about that together.
I think that he so also one thing that is a part of the book, I wrote is his letter to me, it was a speech that he did when when I was, I don't know what you call that.
17:40
That it's like a religious like a religious thing you do.
Where you you you do like a party for the teenager and say that they are now grown up and an adult and then he did like a speech and expressed how happy he was that he had the chance to become my dad. that I was a part of their life and yeah, that our family ended up just as it did and I think he is not like he's okay to talk about things if I mentioned them but he's not as I think many men are yes that someone who expresses his feelings very often in talked about how he feels or If things are making him uncomfortable.
18:42
So I think he's he, he would put that away a bit.
But I yeah.
But that speech says a lot about how he's felt done.
That he's felt lucky.
I wouldn't say aye.
18:59
I don't think he's been like very concerned because he might have been before I was conceived, but I think afterwards he just felt like How how I've been with them.
19:14
How I've also felt about my conception that I've been okay, that I've been talking about it.
You obviously never know if that someday changes when you growing up.
But I think he he just Yeah, felt the relationship.
19:34
So as soon as I was there, I think you didn't didn't worry too much.
No, I think that's wonderful.
Yeah.
And um, did you know who the donor is?
Or I don't know because I know different countries have different rules about that.
Yeah, so today in Denmark, you can choose between an anonymous and and, and, and then animus donor but back then there wasn't that option.
20:00
So every every Donor was Anonymous.
So I don't know, is also an animus.
And, of course, I have the option to to like upload my DNA online and see if that does anything.
20:16
I've never had like, I feel like even if my donor was, if I were to contact him in some way, I'm not sure I would I'm, I haven't really felt the need at any point and also not Taking out potential half-siblings or anything either.
20:35
I just feel like I'm okay with the situation.
I don't, I'm not missing out on anything, so yeah.
Yeah, I think that I just find that since your experience has been so positive.
20:53
I'm like I almost just want to like take all the secrets that you guys have like your secret to success because, you know, I think There are so many of us particularly when we're over the age of 40, the likelihood that we'll need to use a donor at some point in time does go up.
21:12
So it's something that a large group of us, do you think about?
And so, you know, I sometimes think about all the different things that would make a difference.
So if you had tips from your experience tips from your parents, what would you tell people?
21:31
Potential, donor, conceived, or recipient, parents to.
What are the things they can do to kind of help make their Journey as positive as yours has been?
I think he's as we talked about very, very important with telling a lie and having conversations about it.
21:56
I don't think that just telling and then just leaving it at that is enough.
I think.
I think that is important to make sure that the child feels like they can come to you with credit questions and that you are open to have like a conversation about it.
22:15
If you want to involve other people or just want to keep it in the family.
I don't I'm not sure what big of a difference that makes just as long as the child knows that, that you're okay to talk about it.
We can talk about this because there will be times where it's stiff difficult in some way and where it does take up some time and do cause some emotions. and I think that, Truth, like telling the truth and honesty is very important and then love expressing love.
22:56
So that the child knows that this came from love, it wasn't like an intention to her hurt the child.
Or it wasn't because like, it wasn't necessarily, but but done out of love.
23:14
Hmm.
Dear, did you?
Ever find that there are because, you know, the other thing I think about to as a potential recipient parent is that I really think about like, you know, how sometimes you when you think about things are like, oh, you know, my mom does this.
23:33
So maybe, you know, I probably get that from her, something.
Do you ever find that your mannerisms or like your dad or you find similarities like that with your dad?
Like, oh, this is faring, my dad.
Yeah, I think so.
I think I definitely have that, so I am a nurse and during my training I actually went to and he's a doctor.
23:58
So I went to the same Department as he was in and so the other nurses would we come to me?
And tell you like, oh, you look like your dad and we would laugh about it at home because obviously, I I don't even like a biological sense.
24:15
Yeah.
But But yeah in some way I must have some some manners or something that it is quite similar to how he is.
And yeah so I guess I would have that and I do look a lot like my mom both Ian Spirit in look wise.
24:39
So I think I've always known that that was the case in And but other than that, I think we've also talked about things that were different about me.
Like, my mom always said that my mouth must must have been from the donor.
24:56
So we've talked about these things and these things have been like again.
I would say it's been things that have made me more special in like yeah, slip away.
So would like something that really made me me so I think yeah.
25:17
There are all like different things to to the display part of this and that we think about in terms of, what do I look like?
Do I look like him?
And I think yay.
25:34
I'm not sure how much my dad has ever thought about that, actually.
Yeah, but it just sounds like nothing was ever taboo are off-limits.
Like, it was It's just everything was out in the open.
There was no like, it didn't seem like there was ever any discomfort about bringing anything up whether it was no donor or not donor or anything like that.
25:58
So it's like a free-for-all whatever you wanted to ask or say whatever.
Like so it's not like they felt like they needed to not talk about the donor at all, they just openly talked about the donor.
So exactly.
26:13
Okay, that I mean, I think that's I I hadn't actually thought about that like things like that coming up and saying, you know, and having it be okay to have that conversation.
So, I mean, you know, I would love to figure out more and we maybe we need to get your parents on this podcast, you.
26:32
Yeah.
But so tell me about your book.
Tell me about what your thoughts were in starting the book.
Why did you write the book?
And what is the book about?
Hmm, so I For a lot of my life when I became an adult, I didn't really spend much time thinking about my journey conception then someday.
26:56
I had a friend who's a lesbian, ask me about my experience and I thought, oh, maybe people can actually use my life experience and, and how my parents and myself went about this.
27:12
Because I knew that it was still quite A new like field of expertise.
And so I went online and everything I found was just so, so - and whenever I saw something on TV that was related to donor conception, it was also with the negative point of view and it was just so far from my experience that I felt that there was a need for this story.
27:46
So to be shared, I think it is important for us to hear the sad stories and the stories where people have been hurt by this because we can learn from this, but we can also learn from the positive stories.
So yeah, then I started blogging a bit about it and then I could see that that there was a real interest about this.
28:11
And then I began the process of writing the book, which is Like it's like starting at my my birth and actually, it starts with my parents fertility treatment, how they went about that the money, they spent all of that sort of stuff.
28:34
And then just moving on throughout my life and the different experiences I've had with donor conception when it has triggered something.
Means when we felt the need to talk about it, all these kind of things going through life.
28:54
And yeah, I just really felt that it might help both recipient parents donors and other donor can save people.
Potentially that is at least my hope that that people can can learn from our story.
29:14
I don't, as you say I I don't know what exactly made.
I had do have an idea of what made our story so positive and and why I'm happy about my my story but then again, it's hard to know.
29:32
So but I really do hope that sharing or life experience can can help people and be a support to some people out there.
So that was my intention with With a book.
Yeah.
29:47
Well I mean you know, we talked about how positive years was and you said when you went online to kind of find other experiences, you found that there are a lot of negative experiences.
Can you tell me about some of these negative experiences?
Why do you think they were -5 pick?
30:04
But a lot of these.
Well, At the time, I was conceived.
The, the professional advice from doctors were not to tell the child so, mmm.
30:22
Of course, a lot of people have done so they kept it a secret and then, eventually maybe the secret was too big, maybe they thought are now the child isn't at.
All, they deserve to know maybe the person found out by dance.
30:40
So a lot of these stories where people were they had not been told their whole life and then suddenly they they found out this huge thing about themselves and that can trigger so many negative feelings.
30:56
It can cause very difficult feelings in the relationship between the parents and the donor conceived individual because trust is broken.
And then yeah there's also been people who've had like identity crisis and stuff like that because of This massive piece of information missing throughout their life.
31:28
Hmm.
Yeah.
And do you, do you find that that at any point during, you know, your journey into adulthood that you ever thought about the other kind of genetic family that you maybe, you know, like other half, siblings or other?
31:51
Cousins or anything like that.
That ever cross your mind, to be honest, I've only thought about the donor and that wasn't until I was sort of in this donor conception community that I thought about potential half-siblings.
32:06
It never crossed my mind and Yeah, I know that there are it would be unlikely that there aren't any out there.
Let's put it in that way but yeah before that I've never thought about that.
32:27
I only thought about the donor and I didn't really think about his family either.
Hmm.
Do you.
Do you have any thoughts on Anonymous vs.
Open ID?
It's really complex.
32:43
I think I think there is a tendency to say that open idea is just the best thing and I do believe that is good to have options and you do have the option to seek out or not seek out the donor if you want with an open ID donor, I do however also Also, feel like it's been a really fun to me to have that door closed.
33:17
So not like from I knew from H, 3 years old, until I was 18 years old to do something about it.
I could have built up a lot of expectations, I could have put so, so much thought into that.
33:35
So I think that nothing in this world is for free and it's not for free to choose an no, because there will be a lot more to speculate about in to think about and I think that the parents have a very important role in in not putting the donor on a pedestal and yeah getting too high expectations for this this person because you never know, even though they've been open to meeting up at the time, They were donating a lot can happen in 18 years in your life.
34:17
Yeah the donors life.
Yes a so I just think it's there is also potential for the child to become very hurt by that situation if they've look forward to meeting the donor for 18 years and for some reason, the donor don't want to or is not here anymore.
34:39
So I'm also Often asked, what would you choose if you had to use a do yourself?
And I I'm not sure.
I really because I think there are pros and cons to both and I don't think that there is an easy choice.
34:57
I think that that it has, there has to be put a lot of thought, and yeah, feelings into this choice.
I don't know if that was an advice.
No, no, I think it's good to know.
I mean, you, you have a very you have a very unique perspective that none of us have.
35:20
And I think you're able to share our perspective that we can't ever know.
And so sometimes hearing that perspective is very very helpful and and hearing it from your own because you know we we have our own thoughts and perspectives and And when we think is okay.
35:37
But I mean, you know, that's our opinion and and hearing someone who has a different perspective and what that means to them.
And what those options would mean to them is really important to go through because, you know, I can't imagine, like, I don't know if I would, I don't know if I want to know, you know.
36:00
Like if I put myself in that place and said, well, if I had the option, I don't, I don't know what I was.
I mean you're so right it's such a difficult decision to make and I don't I don't know that any one of us knows the right answer to it and I don't know that there is a right answer.
36:17
Yeah, I think like you said, there are pros and cons to each and then you just kind of have to think it out and talk it out to figure out what is the best option for you.
But I certainly value, what you have to say, and what your experience is.
So it's, I think it is valuable.
36:34
I think what you have to say is really Important, do you think you would ever donate your eggs?
Do you think you would ever be a donor?
So, actually, when I was younger, I want it too.
And my mom said, okay, you can do that, but the police wait till you've had your own children, because that was because I think she's had some problems going through all of the treatments that she has.
37:06
She knows that it can whenever you go in there, it can yeah.
Cause some some difficulties.
Yes, so that was her what she told me back then.
Now today, I know that because I'm doing a conceived myself, I can't.
37:25
Oh, because of family history.
So they do like try to map out the family history and diseases.
So I would be Yeah, I would be not be fit for that.
Oh, that's interesting even well I guess I don't know if the if you had it like the files or the medical records of your donor.
37:50
Then would you be able to?
I'm not sure, actually, because the rules I'm not sure what the rules are different countries but I know that at least in Denmark, we do rule up people for a lot.
38:06
Reasons like everyone who's done a conceived or adopted or even if you're gay because of sexually transmitted diseases, even though today you would think while we can test for that.
38:23
Yeah, yes.
So there is like legislations that I think I'll be outdated, so it might be different in other countries.
I'm not sure about that.
Yeah.
Now I was just curious.
It would be interesting.
38:39
So if you had the option, let's let's play a game.
If you had the option.
Do you think you would?
Well, obviously, I did want to at some point.
I think.
I think I would.
Yeah, I think I would.
38:56
And do you think you would be anonymous, or do you think you'd be open ID?
I think I would be open.
I do really.
Yeah I think I would be just because if I've seen the stories where people are hurt and and I would know as a donor I don't have control over what the parents did or did not tell her child.
39:23
So if they were hurt by the situation and I could like be that comfort for them to meet them and see how I look in my family history and stuff like that.
I think I would be okay.
Okay with that.
Mmm.
Yeah and you know I think it'd be interesting too because you two were donor conceived.
39:43
So if a donor conceived, you know came to you and said, oh my gosh, you know how I feel, you know, what this is like and then if you had talked about, you know, you're positive experience or something, then you know, that might be something that's really beneficial for them.
39:59
But yeah, I just kind of, I was curious whether or not Ishida having had your experience, whether or not you would do it.
Let me see here, there are a couple of questions from the on Instagram.
40:16
I post it from some of the listeners.
Do you mind if I ask you some of these questions?
No, not at all.
Okay, let's see.
You have never met your donor, correct.
Hmm.
Okay, so this question doesn't, apply, is there anything about your journey or experience you would change?
40:36
No, I don't think so, actually, I think that I'm really happy with where I am today, and I'm happy about the choices that we've made as a family.
So, I think that, no, I wouldn't change anything.
40:56
I think it's been a good way.
We've handled things and and yeah, I felt very happy about about my situation.
Action I guess.
And I think this this you kind of answered but I'll I'll ask the other half of it.
41:16
Do you feel less loved and are there and at what age were you told you said three is the earliest age that you remember?
Yeah.
And I don't think you don't think you said you felt any different than any way.
I'll let you answer it.
41:31
I don't want to put words.
No, I think actually I felt the opposite like I I felt so so loved.
I felt like I was the most wanted child in the whole world and that made me feel like I feel felt a bit more comfortable and myself because I knew that I was special and loved even more than all of the other regularly conceived children.
41:56
So so I think Also, because we talk so much about it and my parents just expressed their love so much.
I really felt that that I was a very, very wanted and loved child.
Hmm.
42:13
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
Do you feel included by your extended family?
My cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents.
I, yeah, I never felt different.
I Don't remember as a child ever thinking about that.
42:33
Actually, I really don't.
I knew it in my like, all little family of five, but but I didn't really think a lot about it in, like, our wider family.
42:51
And I've never felt different to any of the other other children in the family.
And I've never felt like they treated me any different.
Do you think that was your parents talking to them like talking to your Aunts Uncles or grandparents?
43:07
Yeah.
But do you think that so positive?
I think so and yeah I just think that us being being open about it and them being a part of my parents fertility treatment and their journey to become parents.
43:28
I think They they were just so happy that things worked out the way they did.
And I think that they've been really open minded today, actually, one of my cousin's.
She is others being and has a dinner conceived child as well.
43:45
So so now it in somehow is part of the family history and then I think that has been a good way for them to explain to while there.
Other children in the family, the situation.
44:03
And then they could could say look at Emma.
Her story.
Is that this All-Star is this?
Hmm.
So yeah, did they ask you for advice?
Yeah, they did about it.
Yeah.
So we've talked a bit about it.
I also think they read the book and yeah, your book, the book that you wrote.
44:23
Yeah.
Oh that's so wonderful.
And then did they make their own little book to like your parents made?
Or you did.
They do that too?
I'm not actually sure if they did that.
I'm not sure about that because I feel like I did where I think when you showed I think it was a real you showed some of the pages book.
44:43
And I thought, oh my gosh, this was such a great idea to start from the beginning and just really like you said, tell the story.
So I think I, if I do go ahead and, you know, use an egg donor.
I think that's something that I would definitely do is to They're making the story like this is your personal story.
45:02
I love that idea.
Okay.
And is this other question is, as a kid, did you ever feel your parents were selfish for giving you life?
And she says, this is her fear as being a recipient parent.
Yeah.
And I do understand who, because that is also one of the things I've Experienced other donor, can save people, expressing in like the community.
45:26
And I think that is once again because they've been hired by by this choice in life, I've never ever felt that.
I've never felt that they were selfish.
I felt quite lucky actually, felt lucky to be alive.
45:47
Lucky to be a part of their family, like you to have them.
Them.
No, I've never never thought about that.
I think, if I thought about someone being selfish it, I think I would have felt that that was me if sometimes my conception has taken up a lot of space.
46:09
More, maybe even more towards my little sisters, who are not doing a conceived, okay?
And then, the next question is advice for how to explain to a child.
They're secure in who they are their donor conceived child.
46:24
So, how would you, how would you, what words would you use to explain to a child that their donor conceived?
So, in my, in the book, my parents made, they just told that Mom and Dad needed help to become pregnant.
46:41
So, they had help from a nice man who gave sperm to put on Mom's eggs and then they become, they became pregnant.
So, I think that is a really good way of explaining it, like, my parents.
I think they explained it in like, a biological sense.
47:01
They explain because your mom's, like a geneticist, your dad's, a physician.
So they're very scientific like yet.
They are so so, and I think I understood quite a lot, but that so, they understood about all they explained about the egg and the sperm in how children are made in that like, Ends.
47:21
And so they explained that.
Well, Dad did not produce as much promise as you need to have a child and then we needed to get that from someone else who was kind enough to give some of his but it was like the donor was not a big part of the process.
47:42
More like he was a nice man who gave or something that we did not have of a of our own and I think that was a really good way and then I understood more and more.
We talked a bit more about it and I have a drawing that I made when I was five, it's actually the cover of my book.
48:03
It's like, is that like a happy egg and then surrounded by sperm cells.
And I think that's just a really good example of how much children understand when it is something that is important because that that's the reason I hear from a lot of Recipient parents that, they want to wait to tell the child, when the child understands, and when the timing is right, I think the timing will never be right.
48:30
I think that, that is something that just postpones the conversation, more and more.
And I think that children do understand a lot lot more than what we give them credit for and especially when it's something that is important to them, they want to understand, and they want to ask Questions they want to know what this how, how is this?
48:56
Yeah.
So I think that that is really important to think about.
Hmm.
Yeah, I was talking to a recipient parent and she said, how she explained to her son was that to make a baby?
49:13
You need a seed from a man and a seed from a woman and she needed to use both a seed from a man in a scene from Woman.
And so that might be another way to explain it to for, you know, those who maybe are less science-based, they might be able to say the seed from a man and a seed from a woman.
49:35
I thought that was really a clever weight of explaining that process especially when they're younger than certainly, when they get older and they understand more than you can do, the whole sperm egg thing.
But obviously, you were way ahead of your time and you already knew that explanation at 3:00 So yeah.
49:54
Okay, the next question is.
Is there anything you wish your parents did or said differently?
Not really because they didn't.
Once again, I don't like have a memory of them.
Putting me on the spot telling me something it's more.
50:09
Like Conversations throughout the years.
So I wouldn't say that there's something to be said or done in any other way.
I think that they've, they've just given me a lot of freedom to choose whatever.
50:35
I want it to do with the information.
How much I wanted to know how many questions I want it to ask, I think.
But they've just been supportive and are saying.
Now, we talked about, obviously we talked about this a lot because I do a lot of things related to donor conception and we talked about that my experience also might change whenever I want to have kids myself.
51:02
So when ever you go through something big in life, there's a possibility of this This or my experience with donor conception changing also, if one of my parents were to suddenly die or something like that, that could also change how I feel.
51:22
And I think that were just very open to talk about that that the the possibilities of life, changing how you feel about something.
And I know that I have their full support.
51:37
If some day, I wake up and want to know about the donor, Want to seek out her siblings or just feel feel any different than what I did today then.
I know that we can talk about it, I can get go talk to a professional.
51:54
If I knew that whatever I want, I have their full support and I think that is very important and I think it is important that we've talked about Well, what if the situation is any different?
What if things do not turn out?
52:10
Good in this situation?
What well, what do we do?
How do you feel?
Just open mind it in some way that I think it's important to me to know that I can do whatever I want with the information and that I have their support in whatever.
52:34
I feel Yeah.
It's almost like when there are no restrictions when there are no like caps on you don't feel like you're anything is being kept from so they almost like it takes away from the Curiosity because there's nothing that's off limits and if you have a question it gets answered.
52:54
If there's something you want to know about it gets answered you have access to everything.
And so it seems like there's less of that need to like keep And keep poking, keep wanting to learn more because it's all there.
You don't, you don't have to.
53:10
There's nothing hidden from you.
So I think that's really, at least that's what I'm hearing.
At least from you is that it's like there's no no, I think so too.
Yeah, that's great.
And then this next question, which I think you answered just now is it says, what did your parents do to help you deal with the Curiosity of where you came from?
53:30
But it sounds like they're just talked about it all the time and Or whenever you wanted it?
Yeah, to talk about it.
Yeah because we didn't at all talk about it all the time but whenever I had some feelings involving my donor conception or whenever there was just a part of our life that was connected to like me finding out, I was lactose intolerant, we just talked about it in the situation but there were loads of floats of times throughout the years where we Didn't talk a lot about it at all.
54:06
So once again, it was kind of up to me and how I felt or if there was anything specific in this situation that made us talk so it wasn't like forced, it wasn't like we had to talk about once a week.
So for some periods we might not talk about it for months and then other periods we were talk about it every day but whenever there was something That we would talk about it.
54:37
And I think that was good, very good, ya know what sounded like, you know, it, your experience has just been.
Like, it's like you guys are like the poster for the how you handle, you know, donor conception.
54:53
I feel like your parents just did this wonderful job of creating a very safe space for you to explore all your thoughts and feelings.
Yeah, I think so too.
And one of the things I want to say is that my mom always says that they would just lucky because they were looking for information back then and also when they decided to tell me despite them being advised, not to, but there wasn't really anything there at that time.
55:23
Now you do have kind of a lot more support to log into but I think that they just felt like they were very lucky.
They followed their gut feeling but They didn't really know how to handle things.
So and I think that that is also important when you go into this process, to, to know that that is a feeling that you might have, like, not knowing what to do, how to go about things.
55:54
I think is very, very natural and and you can handle things and in a very good way, even though you don't know From the beginning, what what is up and down and what you're going to do in a specific situation?
56:12
I feel like that's kind of just parenting in general, I think a lot of times when people are just new parents, I don't think anybody knows what to do.
So for sure.
So, I think, either way whether you have a donor conceived child or not, you're going to find yourself not knowing what to do.
56:33
And finding Yourself kind of lost I think along the way.
So this is just a slightly different version of that.
Hmm.
Having kind of being in this community of other donor conceived, people.
56:50
Have you met other people with really positive experiences like you?
Yeah, I have.
So there aren't a lot of these experiences are there because I think also, as I did before I knew You that there was a need for this story to be told, I was just living a very ordinary life and this was not a very big part of my life anymore or at least it wasn't something that I was thinking a lot about putting a lot of thought into.
57:22
So I think that these stories are often not told so pop likley so they can be a bit hard to find.
But after I started sharing my story, I was contacted by someone.
57:39
I went to school with and she told me, she said that she was done he conceived as well.
She has a twin brother so I've talked to them, they have their stories, very, very similar to mine except that they their parents are lesbians.
So obviously, they've had to answer more questions about that.
57:58
And they've also known from day one.
Because of, yes, the nature of the situation, Yes.
And yeah, just this week actually I met a Swedish guy who who's also doing a conceived same age as me and he's met.
58:17
The donor has had an open donor.
Just met him once they talked to each other fine with that very, very positive experience.
Also told from he was just a baby.
So I think that is Yeah.
58:35
What?
I've experienced.
Yeah, the common theme is tell early of all the positive experience.
It sounds like they all knew from the beginning who I do know one, one girl who actually she found out herself when she was, she had just become a mother herself and I think she and her parents had a hard time at first and it was a process for her to go through.
59:05
It's like getting that knowledge but now she's also okay with it so you can also it's not too late.
Yes.
Yes.
But I think that the best way to go about this is telling from from early age so the beginning.
59:22
I would yeah always recommend that.
Mmm.
Yeah, the next question is, do you view your dad as your dad and what are your general feelings?
On.
On this.
I 100% view him as my dad.
59:41
Yeah, I yeah, no, I would never think of him as anything else, and that would also in my opinion, be giving him not enough credit.
But yeah, I've never thought about my donor as my dad, I don't use bylaw.
1:00:04
Logical dad or genetic dad or any of these words?
But I to me he's only a donor.
And I'm really, really grateful towards him.
I think about him with gratitude and I hope that he can feel that in some way at then but I don't see him as a big part of my life and I don't at all see him as a dad.
1:00:33
I think that would be giving him way too much credit, even though I'm very grateful for his donation to my parents.
Hmm.
What do you think?
Is the cause there's so much tied to this like genetic piece like some people are just really like you know, it's like well I feel like I have to know my genetics.
1:00:55
Like I need to know where my jeans come from.
What do you what do you think makes some people feel that way?
And some people, like you said, you know what this?
Like that doesn't mean that much to me.
This is my family.
This is where I belong.
This is.
What do you think helps that feeling?
1:01:13
Because I think about that, too, where I I think about it in two ways one as a potential recipient parent.
I think about whether or not it's like when you see when people see their child, I go, they get that for me or oh, they look like me or oh, and I don't know as a society, maybe that's our fault.
1:01:31
For putting so much on things like that.
So you know, I think that drives that into our mind to get fixated on that.
So you know, what do you think?
Makes it where someone like you is like, you know, what not interested?
1:01:46
That's not, you know this is my dad.
I don't really need to know these Gene thing.
It's, you know, aside from the lactose intolerance thing, you know I'm good, I don't even know it.
So I think there's the many things in this.
I think that I think there's a cultural thing and then I think there is like you also said Society, making it a big deal.
1:02:09
Also the family trees in, I've heard from a lot of recipient parents, where they have experienced things with this family tree at school that has triggered things for their child.
So I think the Is very in some way obsessed with this looking.
1:02:31
Who do you look like?
What is the genetic background here?
And I think it is actually a bit weird because a lot of people have different parent than what they know of.
1:02:48
And that's been like that, like how you handled fertility issues back in the days where they, you went out or you Go to the neighbor's house there.
Something this is not a new thing, but why are we so eager about the genetics?
1:03:09
I'm not really sure.
Also, I think that there is like a trend in getting as much knowledge as possible about also about Like distant distant family years and years back.
1:03:25
I don't understand where this is coming from, be.
It seems like there's a trend there as well.
And I think that we've always talked about genetics in our family, due to my mother and her work.
1:03:42
And I've always Knowing that I have possibilities in like doing tests and stuff like that, but you never know in life.
And and what I've always felt like being Danny conceived was that, I must be better off than regular people because at least the donor was tested for some things instead of if, when you can save naturally, you don't test either of the parents.
1:04:13
So that has also always been my thought that well my risk of having something severe.
It's less than regular people because of the testing that has been been done to the donor.
1:04:30
So but well, it's hard, isn't it?
Hmm.
I'm I'm not sure why I feel How I feel?
Hmm right now.
Yeah, no I just think it's interesting because I catch myself thinking about that.
1:04:48
Like I catch myself going like well why do I care?
Like why does that yeah matter but I'm like well matters because other people think it matters and then you know what I mean?
And then you go into this.
Yeah.
We spiral out of control and you know, I just wondered.
1:05:04
Yeah, but I do understand where you come from because one of the things I've been grateful about Was that?
Well my donor was matched with my dad in terms of here, Colin I call and stuff like that.
So that means that I do not stand out from the rest of the family.
1:05:21
I do look very similar to to also met my sister's.
So, you can't tell from the outside, and that is not even the case in in All Families, like you can have children where they look very very differently even though they have the same parents, but we do Look very similar.
1:05:41
And I think that I've also felt like that was a relief because then I could choose myself.
If I wanted to tell people about this, it was not something that you could just see from the outside.
1:05:57
Yeah it was like something that I could choose to let people know.
And therefore in some way it has also had Again, an impact on how I felt like that is very different from when your folks sample adopted and when it can be very obvious that you look different.
1:06:24
So I thought about that.
And I also think that that was one of the reasons why people at school, didn't really care about my gender conception because it wasn't obvious to them.
Yeah.
And I also from like a genetic standpoint to sometimes, I think about this, where we have genetic family members, or genetic parents or whatever, and sometimes we find that even if we're genetically connected, were not emotionally or physically, or any other way connected because some people can be genetically related.
1:06:57
Add to their parents and have these horrible parents that are like you know, not in their lives or they don't feel any connection toward them aside from their genetic.
So like I try to think of those things too is that you can have the opposite, are you are genetically connected in some way, but you're like, emotionally, I want nothing to do with you.
1:07:17
I'm like, I'm okay with my life without you this, you know, my stepdad has been more of my dad than my biological dad or whatever.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah exactly.
So I try to think about those things too like that experience.
1:07:35
So but for you know I get hung up and and I don't know why I think it's like you said, I think it's just really difficult thing to talk about and figure out to like and why it really matters and it does it really matter because Society, like we said is like made it such a yeah issue like oh yeah like whatever you're just like R dad.
1:07:57
Are you just you know or like you do that like your mom versus just saying that like you know, as you're just a great kid and you must feel so loved.
Like I feel like that should be the conversation.
So saying you look like this or you do this?
Yeah, like your parents like, oh, um, yeah, so loved like, your parents must love you or you must love your parents or something like that.
1:08:18
You know what I mean?
It's shifting that conversation away from some of this.
Yeah, physical stuff and but you know, you can even learn.
Aneurysms without being genetically.
Yeah.
Connected, you know exactly how it's very interesting, but okay.
1:08:36
So if we want to get your book, where do we get your book?
My book is on Amazon and I also have links to from both my Instagram and also from, I do have a website where you can also find the book.
Okay.
And it just must ship internationally, right?
1:08:53
Yeah, it does.
Okay, perfect.
Oh my gosh, that's so exciting.
Gonna go get one to go get a coffee now and then if people want to connect with you if they want to learn more or if they want to ask you questions, are you open to that for sure.
I think the best way to do that is my Instagram and just send me a DM and I'll answer you there.
1:09:17
Yeah.
And I thought I saw you had some takeovers to so you'll have other people take over your Instagram and kind of talk about their experiences to is that right?
Yeah, exactly.
I tried to do that.
So so that we get different views of undoing a conception, and different experiences, as well.
1:09:35
But yeah, and do you regularly do lives with your dad or because I saw a few of them on there.
It's been a while I think right now we're talking about my parents doing like a takeover actually that people could just ask them questions.
1:09:52
So I'm not me with them but just them.
I'm doing a take over a weekend or something like on my Instagram.
So and if questions for my parents also just send them to me and I'll ask them, they are very okay to to answer anything and you're at at donor child, correct?
1:10:16
Yes, d 0.
N 0 R CH.
I LD.
In case anyone's looking and what's your website, it's Emma.
Glenn Beck I'll put a link in.
Yeah.
I think put a link in this bird.
1:10:32
I think it's very long actually.
So yeah, I think we'll put a link instead.
Yes, yes.
Yes.
I'll put a Lincoln and then on there is your blog since like you started the blog as all that on there.
Yeah.
Okay, perfect.
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be with me today.
1:10:50
And thank you so much for answering all these questions and sharing your experience for those of us who may Siddur, you know using donor conception.
We just want to make sure we do the right thing and that people have just as positive experiences you and your family have had because like I said, I feel like you guys are like the poster.
1:11:09
Child, you know, donor conception.
So thank you so much for taking the time to share your story with me, and thank you for sharing your parents story to and kind of helping us all have a better story to share with our future families and to help us make the right decision.
1:11:25
So thank you so much for being here today.
Really.
Appreciate your time.
Thank you so much for having me.
It was really a pleasure.
Yeah.
Oh well, thank you.
But hopefully it won't be the last time if anything new comes up, or if there's anything else you want to discuss?
I would love to have you back if you're open to it.
1:11:41
Yeah, for sure, Perfect.
All right.
Thank you so much.
I'll talk to you soon.
I want to thank you for tuning in today.
I hope you found today's episode helpful if you want a question or topic covered in future, Our episodes, please.
1:11:58
Feel free to reach out to me on Instagram at 40 and infertile, make sure you hit the Subscribe button for alerts and new episodes and I hope to see you back again soon.